Talk:Outsiders
Name of the article I don't recall anywhere in The Lion King II where the name "Outlander" was ever said; only the name, "Outsiders", is said towards Zira's pride. So, I assume that's their name. Werebereus claims the pride don't call themselves, "Outsiders", and the back of his LK2 VHS cover calls them "Outlanders". But, in the film, when Zira takes Kovu back to the Outlands after encountering Simba, she says "Who has made US Outsiders?" With that sentence, she called herself and her pride, Outsiders. As for the plot description on the back of the VHS cover, any description of any film can be wrong, Because of this evidence, that's why I changed the name of the article knowing Werebereus will change it back so we can have a discussion. So, what should be the name of the page? Chris14 (talk) :Uh yeah, no Outlander ever called themselves an Outsiders. Zira says so because they no longer live in the pridelands, they live OUTSIDE of the lands, but the lands they live in are called the outlands thus they are Outlanders. Kovu calls himself an outsider to further illustrate he is longer with them, so this is no proof. They will remain Outlanders as the case says they are.Werebereus 21:01, June 3, 2011 (UTC)Werebereus ::Didn't you read what I just wrote? Zira called herself and her pride, "Outsiders", when talking to Kovu; she said, "Who has made US Outsiders?" She said "us", referring to herself and the lionesses in her pride. True, they live in the Outlands, but nowhere in the film was it said they were "Outlanders". They are recognized as Outsiders by Simba and the Pridelanders, as well as Zira who calls herself by that name. Chris14 (talk) 21:34, 3 June 2011 (UTC) :::The movie is the most official source we can get. Not once is the word "Outlander" used in the entire movie script. Zazu calls them Outsiders, Simba calls them Outsiders, and Kovu and Zira call themselves Outsiders. If we're going to name the page, we need the movie to be the top source. --HoneyfurBob's Your Uncle! 21:52, June 3, 2011 (UTC) The back of the VHS says Outlander and it HOLDS the movie. It's official enough. Or we can have a vote. I've already got a poll up on dA and they share my idea. http://thelionkingpride.deviantart.com/journal/poll/2055237/ I don't think it's such a big deal, I just didn't like chris removing the word Outlanders completely. The term can be juggledWerebereus 22:12, June 3, 2011 (UTC)Werebereus ::As I stated before, any description of a film can be inaccurate, and Honeyfur stated above the movie is most official source we can get. Just like [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120131/ IMDB's description of The Lion King II] states at the top that Zira is Scar's mate, but below where it says "Storyline" it states Zira is the "banished follower of the now-dead Scar". Kinda self-contradicting. Anyway, I'm not stating the back of your VHS cover isn't official, but it's inaccurate because the movie it holds calls them "Outsiders". Chris14 (talk) 23:16, 3 June 2011 (UTC) Patato Patoto Chris.Werebereus 00:22, June 4, 2011 (UTC)Werebereus :Actually, no, Werebereus, because the movie does not say they're Outlanders at all. I call them by both names, but now that I look back on the script, Outsiders is a much more likely and official name to call them by. We can still include the name 'Outlanders' in the page, though. --HoneyfurBob's Your Uncle! 01:06, June 4, 2011 (UTC) Actually yes HF. Either way you put it, they live outside the pridelands(outsiders) and reside in the outlands(Outlanders) Outlanders makes more sense the term is juggle-able, like I said. You can change it. Just make sure chris doesn't delete the oulanders part. Or we can still have tha vote and where did you find this 'scriptt'. is it even official?Werebereus 01:20, June 4, 2011 (UTC)Werebereus :I never said I'd take out the Outlanders part. I just want the official page to be called "Outsiders." And the official script I'm referring to is the movie itself. I literally have it memorized, and the term "Outlanders" is not used once. --HoneyfurBob's Your Uncle! 02:33, June 4, 2011 (UTC) Outlanders http://videoreview.ws/jan/lion.king.2.dvd.s.3.JPGThough hard to see, they are clearly referred to as the "Outland Pride". The individuals may be outsiders but the pride as a whole are outlanders. Werebereus 21:36, June 5, 2011 (UTC)Werebereus :Well, I can see you moved the page back to Outlanders, for the third time. BTW, it doesn't matter. The movie is the only official source in which the pride is called "Outsiders", not some random video review you found. User:Chris14 (talk) Review? Are you blind dude? Does that look like a review to you? It's the back of the DvD case and nothing has changed. They're OUTLANDERS. And if doesn't matter, get over it. http://videoreview.ws/jan/lion.king.2.dvd.s.3.JPG Werebereus 21:46, June 5, 2011 (UTC)Werebereus :It said "video review" on the bottom right of the picture; if I'm not correct about that, then, I'll my eyes checked. As you said, it referred to the pride as "Outland Pride", not as "Outlanders". As I told you before, plot descriptions can be inaccurate if it conflicts with the movie as in this case, the official movie calls the pride "Outsiders", while the back of the DVD case calls them, "Outland Pride". But, I consider a movie produced by the Disney filmmakers more accurate and canon than a book or back of a VHS/DVD cover written by a Disney employee that probably didn't work on the film. User:Chris14 (talk) Inaccurate? This does not conflict with movie. Individuals are Outsiders but the Pride as a whole are Outlanders. The 'Outland Pride'. And well, they've got everything pretty accurate. Them not working in the film is no argument. If anything their Scar's pride since no one says they belong to Zira and many book refer to them as such.Werebereus 22:24, June 5, 2011 (UTC)Werebereus :The film calls them, "Outsiders", while the plot description calls them "the Outland Pride". The plot desciption has just one inaccurate statement with the movie it's holding. Yes, them not working in the film is an argument, as the filmmakers (writers and directors) who actually worked on the film can officially confirm what's canon and what's not with their film. It's more canon than some random person who wrote some inaccurate statement on a mostly correct description of the film. User:Chris14 (talk) ::In addition, the movie is the number one source. I think you've got things really mixed up, Werebereus; you make it sound like deleted scenes, books for five-year-olds, and the backs of DVD cases are more official than the movie itself. That's ridiculous. It's okay to keep the term "Outlanders" in the page, but the actual article will be called by the term used in the movie. --HoneyfurBob's Your Uncle! 22:57, June 5, 2011 (UTC) Really HF? The movie is the number one source? Because I remember you ditching the movie for some comment made on facebook HF. And once again, it does not conflict. The Pride is never explicity named, but now they are. The Pridelanders are the Pridelander pride and the outlanders are The Outlands Pride.Werebereus 23:14, June 5, 2011 (UTC)Werebereus :When did I ditch the movie? I seem to recall ditching a deleted scene....but that's because it's a deleted scene. --HoneyfurBob's Your Uncle! 19:00, June 6, 2011 (UTC) Vote The only way to settle this debate over the official name for Scar's or (Zira's) pride is if we have a vote. This argument is getting us nowhere as we keep moving and renaming the article so I PROPOSE A VOTE. User:Chris14 (talk) 16:25, 6 June 2011 (UTC) Same. I don't appreciate my info being disregarded.Werebereus 16:56, June 6, 2011 (UTC)Werebereus :I don't really see why we should have a vote. Werebereus keeps saying we're disregarding his information, but we still include it in the page even after we've renamed it. And since "Outlanders" and "Scar's Pride" are never used in the movie, "Outsiders" is completely canon, as it is used by four characters. --HoneyfurBob's Your Uncle! 19:00, June 6, 2011 (UTC) Because this matter isn't going to resolved without having a vote is why. The term "Outsiders" isn't just for the lions Simba exiled. Ni is referred to as an outsider because he's a rogue.Werebereus 16:02, June 7, 2011 (UTC)Werebereus :But the article is referring to Zira's pride. They are specifically labeled as "the Outsiders." And Chris is right, this argument will go on forever if we don't put an end to it. The fact of the matter is, the name of the article will remain Outsiders, but we can still include various other names in the article. Why isn't that enough for you? --HoneyfurBob's Your Uncle! 19:06, June 7, 2011 (UTC) ::Better question. How come when I bring the queen thing up about Nala, you want a vote because you think we should have it, but when I want a vote here, you say no? :Because having the page listed under a name that is not used in the movie is ridiculous. --HoneyfurBob's Your Uncle! 00:18, June 10, 2011 (UTC) But it is listed in other official sources so it's fine.Werebereus 16:59, June 15, 2011 (UTC)Werebereus ::Do I need to say it a million times? The most official name for Zira's pride is "Outsiders," because Zazu, Simba, Kovu, and Kiara all refer to them as Outsiders. And actually, Werebereus, this wikia is not about opinion. It's about official information. Because the name "Outlanders" is used in other sources, we can use it on the page. But it's not used in the movie, whereas many characters refer to Zira and her pride as Outsiders. I want everyone to be involved, but in the end, it comes down to what is the most official and professional thing to do about this. Personally, I like the name Outlanders a heck of a lot more than Outsiders. But it doesn't matter what I like more. Outsiders is used in the movie, so that's what the page is going to be called. --[[User:Honeyfur|'Honeyfur']][[User Talk:Honeyfur| I'm surrounded by idiots.]] 17:15, June 15, 2011 (UTC) :::Well apparently it is, since you guys Say Nala is Simba's queen when she's not. We're even having a vote(a rather stupid one) on wether we should add untrue information or not.Werebereus 17:30, June 15, 2011 (UTC)Werebereues :Um, yeah, can you stop being rude to us, please? Being in disagreement doesn't give you the right to outright insult us or somehow be superior to us. We all have a right to our opinion. And it's in the trivia, so please just let it go. --[[User:Honeyfur|'Honeyfur']][[User Talk:Honeyfur| I'm surrounded by idiots.]] 17:54, June 15, 2011 (UTC) Outland Pride and Outlander Ni is reffered to as an Outsider, but he clearly hasn't been banished. An Outsider is an individual, a bunch of them are called outsiders, but the pride itself is called the "Outland Pride" which can also be called Outlanders. http://www.lionking.org/sequels/TLK2/DA-Oz-01.jpg Outlanders is more accurate and makes more sense. An outsider hasn't been banished, they simple don't belong to the pride, but clearly the Outlanders HAVE been banished. Also the Synopsis of SP by Golden Books(a compant that actively works alongside disney and has done so for years) refers to them as outlanders. http://www.lionking.org/sequels/TLK2/SPstory.html Werebereus 22:23, June 27, 2011 (UTC)Werebereis :We had a huge discussion over what the name of the pride is, and it's going to stay Outsiders because the movie officially called them so. You can place all that information in Trivia for all I care. User:Chris14 (User talk:Chris14) 01:28, 28 June 2011 (UTC) ::I wasn't asking you moderatorWerebereus 08:00, July 9, 2011 (UTC)Werebereus Werebereus, I don't care if you don't like moderators. Quit being a jerk to Chris. The point is: the page remains Outsiders. I understand that other sources call them Outlanders, so it's fine to include that in the page, but the article title is going to remain Outsiders. I'm tired of repeating myself. --[[User:Honeyfur|'Honeyfur']][[User Talk:Honeyfur| I'm surrounded by idiots.]] 14:49, July 9, 2011 (UTC) :Wait a minute. So we're going by the movie here but on the King page where NO ONe calls The King or Queen "Lion King" or "Lion Queen" you decide to call them lion kings anyway because it's "Too Vague" or "Makes no sense". How is that fair? If you plan on calling The King's "Lion Kings" whats wrong with outlander?Werebereus 00:34, August 9, 2011 (UTC)Werebereus :Tch. ? Where the page go?Were2 01:13, October 21, 2011 (UTC)Werebereus :Fixed. --[[User:Honeyfur|'Honeyfur']][[User Talk:Honeyfur| Hakuna Matata]] 01:18, October 21, 2011 (UTC) What German comic with Chumvi? In the trivia section, it says "Another theory to explain their absence can be found in a German comic about Scar's pride, in that comic it says Chumvi (one of Simba's friends) was employed as Scar's guard but tricked Scar saying he had found a carcass bigger enough for his favoured lionesses. While this theory is unofficial and may sound far fetched it explains why Zira and her hunting party weren't there to help Scar." What German comic? There are no reference links, and I've never heard of such a comic. Is someone referencing a fan comic? And I'm wondering why Mheetu is listed in the information section as a member of the Outsiders? He had nothing to do with "Simba's Pride", nor is it even for sure he had anything to do with Scar. Rinjapine 04:39, March 30, 2012 (UTC) :Good catch. I have no knowledge of the comic they're referring to, so, since there's no reference, I'll get rid of it. --[[User:Honeyfur|'Honeyfur']][[User Talk:Honeyfur| Hakuna Matata]] 18:59, March 30, 2012 (UTC) :What about the Mheetu comment in the Information section? Why is he listed as one of the males of the pride?Rinjapine 03:41, March 31, 2012 (UTC) ::Whoops, I forgot to remove that. Thanks, Rinja! --[[User:Honeyfur|'Honeyfur']][[User Talk:Honeyfur| Hakuna Matata]] 16:55, March 31, 2012 (UTC)